Comments on: THE PRINCESS AND THE PEA – “Female” as a slur https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/ Nerds bite back! Thu, 23 Oct 2014 18:18:14 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.2 By: Ginkgo https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8394 Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:56:33 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8394 Welcome, dejour. It’s a judgement call, isn’t it? You don’t want to make trouble needlessly, and at the same time you don’t want to cave to some bluenose’s power trip either.

]]>
By: dejour https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8393 Mon, 03 Jun 2013 20:47:33 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8393 I have had people complain about me using “females”. I try to avoid it now, or at least use males as well.

Nonetheless, I find females to be useful when talking about women *and* girls.

]]>
By: Ginkgo https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8392 Tue, 28 May 2013 14:54:57 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8392 John, I have a gender/class post on courtly love coming up. somewhere typhon remarked that the real point of courtly love, the real standard of how well it is perfomred, is how much the man does for the women (who of course is required to be completley pasive). And this is not limited to actual relationships but has metastasized to the entire culture and expectations around any kind of interaction between genders. Your point about language policing dovetails with that.

]]>
By: Tamen https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8391 Tue, 28 May 2013 10:22:03 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8391 As John Markley point out, it’s rather glaring how that article Astrokid.NJ linked to is littered with “guys” and “dudes”. The same goes for the comments.

]]>
By: John Markley https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8390 Tue, 28 May 2013 01:34:08 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8390 One underappreciated reason for the use of female, I think, is that while there are lots of informal terms for adult males that are considered perfectly inoffensive by virtually everyone, every female equivalent I can think of creates a not-insignificant risk that the man using them will will be viewed, and perhaps attacked, as sexist. “Female” is, or was, what’s left over.

I’ve actually come to view feminist demands that adult females be referred to always and only as “women” as a demeaning ploy for dominance. When one person must be more formal when speaking to or about another person than that other person is in return, that typically indicates subservience and inferiority. Adults address children by given name, while children are usually expected to reply with titles. Soldiers say “sir” to superiors, not subordinates. And so on.

So when a woman won’t accept any term for herself other than “woman” but feels free to call me a “guy” or a “dude,” she’s demanding respect that she doesn’t extend in return. This sort of fits in with Ginkgo’s subsequent post about gender and class, now that I think about it.

]]>
By: Astrokid.NJ https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8389 Sun, 26 May 2013 04:50:14 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8389 This female woman issue cropped up in the athesit community prior to Egate, at an Atheist conference.
When Gender Goes Pear-Shaped

It was extremely frustrating. So I wasn’t surprised when the young woman who finally stood up and started challenging the panel snapped. First, despite her having her hand raised for most of the discussion, the panel never even acknowledged her or invited her opinion (despite soliciting the opinion of several guys both on and off the panel. Finally, she just stood up and started shouting to make her voice heard. Her question focused on the language the panel had been using – “female” instead of “woman,” and pointed out that it made us sound like livestock rather than people

]]>
By: dungone https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8388 Wed, 22 May 2013 03:24:47 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8388 @Gingko, it’s only possible to lie with statistics because so many people are innumerate. Most of the liars are ignorant themselves and their real lord isn’t math but confirmation bias. So I’m fine with there not being a choice in the matter – a person either strives to learn to understand statistics or they strive to remain a fool.

]]>
By: Ginkgo https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8387 Tue, 21 May 2013 21:38:04 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8387 “Figures lie and liars figure.”

It’s all fun with numbers. I recognize the utility of statistics as a way to analyze a situation, but mostly I see them used to obscure it.

]]>
By: dungone https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8386 Tue, 21 May 2013 14:58:36 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8386 It’s the ecological fallacy. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy#Group_and_total_averages

Suppose one knows the number of Protestants and the suicide rate in the USA, but one does not have data linking religion and suicide at the individual level. If one is interested in the suicide rate of Protestants, it is a mistake to estimate it by the total suicide rate divided by the number of Protestants.

In Cicero’s example, they’re trying to link women to total DV victims even though they don’t have data linking women to DV on the individual level. In gwallan’s Australian example, they’re trying to link men to DV abusers, but they maliciously removed data linking men to abusers at the individual level. So they’re dividing the total number of incidents in the entire population by just the number of men or just the number of women in order to inflate the numbers for that particular group.

]]>
By: gwallan https://www.honeybadgerbrigade.com/2013/05/17/the-princess-and-the-pea-female-as-a-slur/#comment-8385 Tue, 21 May 2013 12:27:51 +0000 http://www.genderratic.com/?p=2983#comment-8385 The woozle effect occurs when incorrect or misinterpreted research is cited repeatedly thus becoming “truth” as a consequence.

“a name for conflating the numbers for men and women and presenting them as numbers only for women”

I’m uncertain of any specific label for the type of misrepresentation asked about. Possibly “conflation”.

A similar, albeit reversed, Australian example would be the interference by federal Labor politicians in the creation of our Bureau of Statistic’s first “Personal Safety Survey” in the mid nineties. They forced the removal of any questions which might reveal the sex of an individual who had abused any study participant. The study will have identified abuse actually committed by women as having been committed by men.

]]>